The Cyrodiil Look: Cahmel’s New Travels (Let’s Play Oblivion, Part 14)
When we last left our legendary hero, he had just proven that he alone was worthy of doing business with the most low-rent crapartist fence of the Thieves’ Guild, and was now attempting to prove he was worthy of running errands. I am to do this by rounding up knickknacks and selling them to my fence, who will then turn around and…wait, who does the Thieves’ Guild sell this stuff to? They wouldn’t let me do business with them earlier, so I’m guessing that policy extends to all members of the public. So, what do they do with all of these clay plates and cabbages I’m selling them, throw them at the mailman to see if he’s worthy of bringing them packages?
Oh, what’s that you say? They sell ‘em to merchants? Except, if you’ll recall, merchants can magically detect stolen goods and are on record as refusing to buy ‘em from me. You’re telling me they’ll only take them from a sinister shadow organization at marked-up prices?
I think I feel another counterpoint coming on. “Maybe they don’t buy stolen goods from you because the Thieves’ Guild threatens shopkeepers who do business with amateurs?” That would make sense—relative to any given element of a Bethesda setting, anyway—except that the Thieves’ Guild in Cyrodiil has an ironclad reputation as a softie don’t-bruise-their-tender-heads pacifist Robin Hood wussarmy. They actually outright forbid you to kill people when you’re on the clock, so it doesn’t really add up that they’d threaten violence against innocent shopkeepers, or that the shopkeepers would find those threats credible— they’re no more prone to threatening people than House Hlaalu is to holding sexual harassment seminars. Come to that, I doubt merchants would support an institution that’s no doubt responsible for significant losses on their own end. Most of my current haul was taken from businessmen just like them.
Let’s go ahead and recap, because I’m not sure you could absorb that much stupid in one go. The Thieves’ Guild will only trade in goods with an elite clientele of people, these being the absolute best of the realm’s incompetent bunglerogues. Their business consists of buying crappy knickknacks from said bunglerogues until such a time as they prove themselves worthy of selling…slightly more expensive items. These goods are then turned around and sold to the rest of the guild and nobody else. Let’s be generous to an absolute goddamned fault and call this demographic five hundred thieves total. That’s five hundred thieves selling whatever random crap they happen to get their hands on to five or six merchants scattered around the world, with only a very tiny percentage of those people able to even access more than half of said merchants. And to support this entire enterprise, the crap is then purchased by…those same thieves. At the same price you’d buy said crap from a store. Not that you’d want the vast majority of it. Because it’s crap.
Put on your pants-crapping pants, Mr. Grey Flockwit, because here’s an idea that actually makes sense. Make it so that anyone, even—especially—nonthieves, can come in off the street and buy or sell to a fence. Fences will sell these stolen goods at competitive prices, which will attract a vast clientele of poor people and bargain hunters, which will make everyone involved scads of money. In addition, by paying attention to who your fences’ most regular suppliers of lucrative goods are, you get an excellent idea of who is actually an effective thief and not just some jackass who got himself thrown in prison. Then you approach these people about membership, and then you worry about figuring out who’s ready for more difficult tasks.
I guess my theory is that guild standing is based on incompetence. If you screw up a job and go to prison, you’re offered membership. If you flunk economics, you’re offered leadership.
Then again, that theory’s somewhat shot down by the whole proving your worthy fetish they’re working. Case in point: I have to sell this fence a sufficient quantity of stuff to get offered my first job. I liquidate my first ever haul, the end result of one night’s work.
So proud.
Alright, let’s see what job Armand’s got for us. This had better be good.
It is. Oh, it is. Turns out, while I was gone, an unspeakable atrocity was committed by the city guards, under the control of the fascist robot Lex, a man who had previously demonstrated his depraved character by going on record as not liking the Grey Fox, king of the petty thieves. Demonstrating ill will towards criminals was bad enough—practically unforgiveable–but this time, he’d gone too far.
It was a day like any other on the Waterfront District. The sound of the river lapping against the dock was the only noise that disturbed the early-morning calm, a silence that hung like a bird of prey riding a killing wind. This peace-loving community of fishermen, odd-job workers, sailors, and innkeepers arose to set about their business…only to find armored puppet soldiers of the state waiting on their stoops and gardens. The people had nowhere to run, and they had nowhere to hide—they could do nothing but cower, defenseless, as guards descended on them and collected taxes.
That’s right. Lex—that grinning, soulless monster–collected adjusted income tax from the innocent proletariat. I know I am not alone in declaring this outrage cannot stand. I mean, legally collecting money from people? That’s practically thievery! We must stand together as one people, raise up our arms, and storm the very walls of the fascist wait this is stupid.
He collected taxes? That’s it? I mean, yeah, I guess these people are poor, but are they really that poor? There’s a couple beggars hanging around, but most of the people here have some kind of job they’ll talk to you about if you ask them. That guy fishes, that lady runs a boarding house for sailors, that dude runs a guild of people who steal things indiscriminately from merchants…all of these people have a steady source of income, so it’s not unreasonable that they should have to give up a couple gold here and there. And hell, even the beggars always seem to have a decent sum on them, probably from all the prospective recruits bribing them for the location of Target X’s house.
Little spoiler, here: you eventually recover the collected taxes, and it’s not that much. In fact, you get to keep it, and it’s implied that the Grey Fox just goes around and comps everyone for their individual losses. What the hell was that point of that, then? Apparently I was “sending a message” that if you collect taxes from the people, someone will infiltrate your tower and steal it right back! I mean, the first time. The next time, I guess you can just staff extra guards to protect it. Or just deliver it to the coffers right away. That would also work.
Is this really what I’m to expect from the guild? A terrible corporate structure, a lunatic fiscal plan, and a social crusade that reads like something from an editorial in a college newspaper? The kind that’s written by someone who wears scarves in July and has a beard thick enough to hide his pirate radio transmitters in?
You know what? Screw this. I think I just proved myself worthy of leaving you people to your inbred capitalism and questionable, if enthusiastic, politics. I’m going to find a job somewhere else.
You know, I guess I said I’d put this behind me, but all the sudden I could really go for killing something.











To be fair to them, their stupidity leads to downright brilliance if you finish their quest line.
Gray Fox just lays it on the line for you.
“No, no, look: I trust you, I even LIKE you, so I’ve got a proposition. You’re going to sneak into the heavily guarded fortress in the center of the city, and steal me some stationary.”
“Um?”
“FROM BLIND MONKS. BOOM!”
Oh, wait… Crap! Rutskarn, why do you have to ruin all my favorite moments with your… your… realistic expectations?
It’s stupidity, but it’s stupidity that they pay you to put up with. Why would you ruin a thing like that? You got 50 GP out of a quest that didn’t have you getting killed, molested, or forced to hang out with NPCs. IMO, that is the best kind of job.
Aw, you mean we’re never going to get to the part where you finally take your vengeance on the evil guardsman… by landing him a prestigious, high-paying job in another city?
So what was the implied disappearing loot stuff that commentators were talking about back when he couldn’t sell his haul to the magic-eyed merchants?
I haven’t played the game so I don’t know if there is an exception here, but whatever they were talking about doesn’t seem to have happened here.
Failure as a mechanism of upward mobility? I’d have expected that to be the perfect group for Cahmel.
So – now Cahmel’s going to join the Poorly Illuminated Siblinghood?
The end seems like a teaser for Dark Brotherhood… but I bet it’s actually the Arena or something.
I think it’s implied that only the Thieves Guild is capable of the mysterious, shadowy and arcane magical incantations capable of wringing the merchants’ telepathic hivemind off the stolen leek, severing the connection and removing its “stolen” status. Then they sell it to some food merchant at triple the normal price… food merchants are gullible like that, they could increase the value of their wares by several hundred percent if they just made restore fatigue potions.
Maybe they just ship things off to another country where the local law has no jurisdiction? and where gear in shipping crates is expected to not smell like wolf intestines? or maybe when they sell things to shopkeepers they aren’t carrying a dozen enchanted broadswords, several sets of armour and an entire pantry of food. They might even dress in normal clothes and not have coin purses the sizes of treasure chests hanging from their pants.
Oh who am I kidding, they’re probably dressed in their finest leather armour with a row of daggers and aren’t even pretending to be holy men. They probably just leave it rotting in a storeroom, unable to get rid of it today, but maybe tomorrow.
Wait, I got it! the Grey fox puts his cowl on top of them and everyone forgets who owns them!
Here’s hoping he joins the Dark Brotherhood.
I actually liked those guys. They were a bit creepy and sure, at one point you [SPOILER]
kill all your so-called brethren because there seems to be a traitor
[END SPOILER] but there were actually a really nice bunch of murdering people.
Just don’t jion the Warrior’s Guild or the Mages… they both suck royally.
Hm, that spoiler placement could have been better… chalk up another request for an Edit-button.
@Sekundaari: The Arena would actually be nice, because there’s a bug that gives you and excuse to join the DB. YOu probably already know, but when you do the arena champion’s quest before fighting him and tell him that he’s part vampire he’ll let you finish him off without a fight (truly something that Cahmel cannot resist: an easy win) and the DB will actually see it as murder.
That means if there hasn’t been a bugfix for that.
I think if the Imperials made being ugly illegal it would really bring down the crime rate. Also a lot of other things. But at least all the filthy n’wah would be off the streets.
If the Imperials made being ugly illegal, they’d have to murder every man, woman and child in Cyrodiil.
Also gah. That’s not a face I need to see early in the morning.
I’m surprised that face was able to get that many words out of it’s mouth. It looks more accustomed to saying ‘Duuuuuuh?’
@Destrocus: Yeah, I know about the bug, though I have never done the quest. I just remember murdering some annoying useless noble guy in Skingrad. (This and your spoiler remind me of a certain game I played recently.) I wonder about Cahmel’s reaction to the Adoring Fan, by the way.
And I don’t think the Fighters or Mages guilds are that bad, both have their share of funny quests. Like the obligatory starting rat quest, or the Cheydinhal recommendation.
Speaking of Ugly Faces, Cahmel needs to somehow get to Chorrol and do A Shadow Over Hackdirt. That and the Brotherhood, and Sanguine’s quest… my wishlist is getting kind of long, isn’t it.
it’s not that stupid when you consider that the waterfront is slums that receive no benefit from the city, supposedly. so there’s no reason for it to be taxed.
now, it could just be me, but the cyrodiil version of chamels adventures has a lot more spoiler warning to it than morrowind. i kinda liked it more when it was about the character doing silly things and complaining, rather than just raggin on the engine all the time.
as for the stolen loot problem, that was because of the issue in morrowind where, if you stole something from a vendor, you could never any of that thing to him again.
the alternative to both of those (ie: stolen flags on the loot and stolen flags on the vendor) would be to make each vendor have a flag for one specific item of that loot, the one you stole. that would bloat the save file to ginormic proportions REALLY fast if you were a thief, just due to the amount of vendors there are, not even considering the amount of items that exist. plus most items dont have a unique diferentiator. really they did about the best they couldve.
“…That means if there hasn’t been a bugfix for that…”
Bugfix? BUGFIX!?
What game are you playing? Here in Bethesdaland there’s no such thing as bugfixes. That ain’t how they roll…
About the topic of ugly:
Elder Scrolls V has been announced for next year in november (though it’ll probably get postponed we all know that) and there is great news along with it: It won’t use the Bethesda Gamebryo or the id Tech 5 engine, but an all new one. Lets hope they make people presentable this time around!
I´m sure the new engine will get rid of all the previous errors, bugs and glitches, only to replace them with even more hilarious errors, bugs and glitches.
It would be rather silly to advertise the “significant” date of 11.11.11 (ddmmyy, because that’s especially important in this case) and then delay it. Or maybe they would delay it to 12.12.12 then…
In case someone doesn’t trust my suspiciously suspicious links (can’t blame them), this announcement is what I was talking about in the comments of the last post.
@Blanko2: I sort of agree, Cahmel doing silly/stupid things was more fun.
I think I feel another counterpoint coming on. “Maybe they don’t buy stolen goods from you because the Thieves’ Guild threatens shopkeepers who do business with amateurs?”
…which they wouldn’t do because then every merchant could attest to there existing a thieves guild.
“Make it so that anyone, even—especially—nonthieves, can come in off the street and buy or sell to a fence. ”
the fences would have to front as legitimate pawnbrokers (presumably what fences in reality do) to preserve the whole “the thieves guild doesn’t exist” thing
Blanko2, Sekky: I think perhaps you’re misremembering the last series a bit. If you go back through the House Hlaalu series, which occurred at about the same point in the LP as this Thieves’ Guild bit has, it’s also mostly just making fun of the fact that none of the quests make sense.
When the quests are solid, I make fun of the protagonist. When the quests are weak, I make fun of the quests. That’s the breakdown that’s served me well throughout my LPery.
Hehehe. Just finished re-reading Morrowind. I was jsut about to ask when Cahmel’s occupational ADD was going to kick in.
I’m looking forward to the next employer to warrant a knuckle hoagie.
Oh, I was just stating my preference in those different things: Cahmel fails at simple things in life/fails at more difficult things/succeeds and reflects on the humiliation/pain/public indecency he had to endure/succeeds and actually can honestly celebrate it for a change = very very fun, silly economics/guild policies= not quite as fun.
Don’t get me wrong, I like the series. Perhaps it’s just that the latter are what pretty much every character experiences, but the former are about this specific character. I liked the part where he accidentally escorted an NPC (without payment!) a lot. Or the taking over of a pirate ship.
Or maybe it’s just that the latter ones have been the subject of pretty much every one of the last few episodes. Killing something will probably help.
Failing to kill something, more likely.
We are talking about Cahmel here after all.
He’s gonna cry like a little girl.
Destrocus, I don’t know which LP you’ve been reading, but I remember Cahmel as a bad-ass, bare-naked murdering machine.
Then again, I remember a lot of people that way.
Dark Brotherhood, here we come! At least, I hope so. Then again, it might make too much sense for this series. At least do the one with the bonus for not killing anyone but the target, though.
Jarenth, please stop remembering me that way. It makes me feel uncomfortable……………………………………………………………………………………………….ly awesome!
(I’m aware that add the ly there would make it no longer a real word.)
The trickiest thing wasn’t getting enough goods to get to the limits. It was getting just the right amount of cheap goods to go above the required limit, but below the next limit.
There’s a really nasty bug in the entirety of the TG questline that, if you fence more than you need to (by a checkpoint or two), the fencing sidequest-requiredquest-mess goes into confused mode, and you can’t advance from there.
That’s why I just ended up never doing the TG questline after the first two times over.
I never encountered that bug. Apparently, the reason I love the TG so much is that it works for me where it doesn’t for other people.
@Sekundaari:
I really hope that the food merchants don’t catch on! After all, if they did, where will I get the raw materials to fuel my alchemist money machine?
ah, well, i dunno, i just read this and feel it is more acidic commentary agaisnt the game. course it could be that im just more used to hearing you in spoiler warning now, so its actually my perception that has changed, rather than anything else.
but yeah, i still like the series, i realize that wasnt clear in my last post
I was lucky enough that the TG questline bug actually missed me despite going way overboard with the stolen loot, or maybe one of the bazillion mods I had dealt with it. I got a couple calls that I should go somewhere but as long as I followed them in order I was good.
And I’m sorry to see Cahmel drop out with the TG, I’ve found it one of the more original questlines, and it was nicely connected to bits of lore that I’ve always found interesting. The first half or so of the DB questline is also like this, someone had quite a bit of fun making those (also, your first DB brothers and sisters are among the most entertaining/appealing and best written characters in the game imho). Mages’ and fighters’ guild only have a few gems of an amusing quest here and there and most of it is standard fare.
Dear Ramsus,
never
Hugs, Jarenth.
Dark Brotherhood should really be the finale, as it’s one of the best designed quest lines in the game (no seriously, look at the bug lists- the DB quests are almost respectable, they’re so clean). I suspect his next stop will be the arena, which will end in one of two ways: He wins, and gets stuck with the creepiest, most confounding NPC in the game – or he loses, and we get to watch him run squealing like a little girl from Argonian prisoners/Orcish murder machines.
Obviously this Thieves’ Guild is no Thieves’ Guild at all, but some complex scheme by the government to control the stupidest and most antisocial elements of the world by paying them to channel their negative energy into mostly harmless, frivolous, and inconvenient acts of theft. A plan of this subtlety and magnitude could only be orchestrated by a most wise and cunning Emperor the kind… the kind… who would hide an emergency escape route in a prison and take petty convicts along for the ride when he had to run for his life. Right. Suddenly I highly doubt my own theory, and we are right back where we started.